Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Modding, patches, etc., for anyone who speaks neither Polish nor Czech.
Post Reply
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

I am currently working on reworking Am15a / Ru15a so seemingly "hidden" og bugged features are enabled. One of them are the Americans and/or Russians building the siberite bomb. The cooldown for doing so seems ridiculously high: [220$0,150$0,100$0][difficulty] (220 min for easy, 150 min for medium, 100 min for hard). What do you think would be an appropriate cooldown?
User avatar
0dd1
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by 0dd1 »

Does cooldown mean that they wait before even starting the research?
On a quick run (with a timer) on hard, going straight for Americans took less that 10 min before taking their base, another 10 or so researching all needed upgrades and artifacts another 10, and all that again to take out Araians bring people to Alien building and teleport and wipe out Russians. Altogether it took 45 min, though it still can probably be done faster.

Edit: :roll: Noticed I mistook 1h for 100 min. If they were to have the bomb ready in 60min it would be fine in my opinion. Of course there are also other ways to play this mission, but it really shouldn't take more than 80 min in any case.
Do it!
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

All computer sides research continuously with siberite fission being the last tech they research. The cooldown (just my term) is the time from game start the computer will wait before actually building the bomb. So in the case of hard difficulty the computer will only start considering building a bomb after 1 hour and 40 min. It will then wait for sufficient resources and the tech to be researched if it isn't (although it should be - it's usually researched after 20 min or so).
User avatar
Antitheus
Kung Führer
Kung Führer
Korea North
Posts: 2593
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:45 pm
Location: Gorzów Wlkp.
Contact:

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by Antitheus »

Nie wahajcie się, by przedstawić swoją opinię/propozycję po polsku. Przetłumaczę Wasz post.
(Don't hesitate to post your opinion/suggestions in Polish. I'll Translate it.)
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

So much for the feedback...

Ok how about [85$0,65$0,45$0][difficulty] ?
User avatar
0dd1
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by 0dd1 »

Just for sake of being thorough, I played it on hard twice again, first destroying the Russians in beginning and taking their base and second with going for Arabians in the first place. Each time made it in 45min. That's egnough time to defeat one enemy, set up, research artifact, prepare some strike force and wipe the rest out. Assuming that computer still has to build the bomb after that time, that leaves a comfortable margin for error.
I hardly ever use lower difficulties, so can't present any specifics, but it seems reasonable. Though, considering that there isn't much research to be done (most techs already invented), high levels of characters and a good amount of resources taken over along with whatever base, it basically would leave additional 20 or 40min just to play the attacking part. Looks a little high but that could be just me.
Do it!
User avatar
Antitheus
Kung Führer
Kung Führer
Korea North
Posts: 2593
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:45 pm
Location: Gorzów Wlkp.
Contact:

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by Antitheus »

McBenn wrote: Ok how about [85$0,65$0,45$0][difficulty] ?
I would say, it could be reduced by even more. In the original campaigns you could use your artifacts for destroying the rockets; it should be used as key strategy for victory on the hardest difficulty.

Ech, I put advertisement of the initiative on Facebook and Steam. Those OW players really seems to be a little too shy.
User avatar
0dd1
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by 0dd1 »

That's a cool idea, but it would require a separate factory for each side, otherwise any attacks would cease early and the player wouldn't even have to defend and instead could simply rush at the enemy - since lack of vehicles would make it easier to win.
The player doesn't need alien building for that, so it would work from any base on the map. From what I've posted so far, it should take about 10min to destroy Americans, and it doesn't take long to research artifacts, so the bomb should start to be produced within next few minutes. Taking over Russian base could take a little longer but the bomb would still go before 20min. Way of starting with Arabians would be at a disadvantage here since artifact takes a while to reload after every use and there are two bombs to mind. Introducing a little assymetry in starting time between Am and Rus would be needed (it would be a little silly to have the bomb wait in base for few minutes for player's convenience) allow the player to keep both sides in check at least for a while. Otherwise the player would have to destroy one of the two before 20min anyway.

And I forgot to mention a bug spotted before: After Russian capitulation their vehicles became mine, but some of their "Russian" behaviour remained - they kept shooting at the artifacts when in their vicinity.
Do it!
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

0dd1 wrote:That's a cool idea, but it would require a separate factory for each side, otherwise any attacks would cease early and the player wouldn't even have to defend and instead could simply rush at the enemy - since lack of vehicles would make it easier to win.
We could just make the AI build bombs in intervals, i.e. wait some time between building them so normal vehicles are produced in between. Building the bomb takes about 5 min.
0dd1 wrote:And I forgot to mention a bug spotted before: After Russian capitulation their vehicles became mine, but some of their "Russian" behaviour remained - they kept shooting at the artifacts when in their vicinity.
Trying to figure out what goes awry is quite the challenge, especially because the AI uses macros (I have no idea how to use those). I've hacked a solution instead.
User avatar
0dd1
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by 0dd1 »

McBenn wrote:We could just make the AI build bombs in intervals, i.e. wait some time between building them so normal vehicles are produced in between. Building the bomb takes about 5 min.
Part of the difficulty is that the computer keeps rebuilding it's vehicles and constantly throwing them at the player. It would simply make the mission, mainly attacking, easier. They would have to produce a large reserve of vehicles, prior to building the bomb, to make up of the cease in production.
Do it!
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

A reserve for defending I presume. Also possible.
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

Antitheus wrote:I would say, it could be reduced by even more. In the original campaigns you could use your artifacts for destroying the rockets; it should be used as key strategy for victory on the hardest difficulty.
Investigating things a little further it seems the Russians win if they fire their bomb so that you can blow up with the artifacts, but as just as soon as the Americans build their bomb you lose so you won't get the chance to use the artifacts to destroy it. This assymmetry is really odd, especially because the Russians always go fire the bomb at the Americans even if they are defeated.
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

Ehm so where are we getting? I can't just let this hang forever (has already been almost a month) so if noone protests within the next few days I'll simply set the cooldown for building the bomb to [85$0,65$0,45$0][difficulty].
User avatar
0dd1
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by 0dd1 »

I don't know what else to add here. The proposed cooldown is good, though Antitheus' idea would be better but demands more tampering - ensuring assymetry between the bombs and giving time destroy American bomb would be most important. Change in vehicle production advisable though not absolutely necessary. Assuming it's just the cooldown, the time can actually be 10min, since it would give at least 15min before the bomb is actually build and artifacts can be up and running by that time.

btw is Joan Fergusson stil available in Ru15a? She was supposed to die in ru campaign remember?
Do it!
User avatar
McBenn
ArCamp Developer
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Re: Am15a / Ru15a siberite bomb

Post by McBenn »

I'm generally not happy to tamper too much with the original missions. Partly because their code it hard to read; partly because I don't want to change Altar's intentions with the missions. There is one thing, though, I'm tempted to change: Why in the world do the Russians have to fire their siberite rocket before the player loses while the Americans just have to produce theirs? At least change it so the Russians won't fire the rocket in the defeated American base.

The Fergusson bug is fixed but Stu hasn't released a patch since it was fixed.
Post Reply