[EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Dział poświęcony projektowi Arabian Campaign

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vanimpe
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

I think that to Heike team in mission 15 should be added ALI HADARACH, a mechanic who is Powell's "friend" in Am 15 mission. Maybe, he should not betray us but he should be in squad - we must remember that HE JOIN AM ARMY AFTER LEGION DEFEAT. As long as Legion exist, he will be with us... He should be added, especially for the reason that we have some random guys in our team.

Player who will play this mission and am camp will think twice about this hero.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

Look above. The idea has been considered few posts ago but didn't make it. Altough it's probably easy to make one of the random characters have that name, it would interfere with the order of events as it is - Powell isn't supposed to know that Legion can build a bomb, unless he sees one, while this would suggest otherwise. Also, Heike's group is clearly made of people she really can trust, so having even a potential traitor seems contradictionary. Still, it may be used in remaining Arabian missions and the name might be worth remembering if it does.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

On the other hand, you're right. Ali Hadarach is with Legion when Heike is with Arabs in Am mission 15. His name should be used in previous Arab missions but he should not be an important hero.

What is in my humble opinion the best option, there is a mechanic called Willard Fields, maybe he could be changed to Ali Hadarach. He betrays Arabs with Gordon (Gossudarov mission) and is one of important persons in previous missions (he told us about building cars in 4rd mission). In Legion campaign he should be one of the Farmer squad and he should join us with Gordon on mission 13 (Gordon joins us with Willard and he is not a random guy). This hero is not with us on the legion 15th mission, he stays with Farmer and Gordon on 14th mission.

Arabs don't have many characteristic heroes from Am and Rus camp - there is a few, so all of them should be used. As I said before, average player would feel more like playing official camp if we use all the heroes from Am and Rus campaign.

If Heike stays with Arabs he (Willard Fields = Ali Hadarach) does not die and he is with Legion in Am 15 and betrays them as a Powell's friend when Heike stays with Omar Ali/Arabs. When Heike is a Legion leader he dies in legion 14th mission with Farmer and Gordon and he doesn't betray Legion as a Powell's friend in 15th. I think it is a great idea to tie all the camps.
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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

Changing Willard's name to Ali Hadarach sounds like a fine plan. Looks like Ali's portrait really is random in Am15. Shouldn't he also look the same?
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

He should always look the same. Maybe, in next patch Stucuk should block Ali Hadarach face and change it for the same what will be in "Official" Arabian Camp.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

And I thought I was obsessed with details.
Frankly, all this reusing of characters feels a bit artificial. The two original campaigns weren't meant to be two sides of one story, but two alterantives, which means putting them in one campaign just because they were in the other may not necesarily make sense. I think You should be careful not to overdo it.

Since we're on the (off)topic however, might as well be thorough:
Grishko-in ru03 he notifies Kirov over radio about approaching "unidentified enemy" just before being fried. Could be placed in ar05_cont.
Gaydar-in ru04 he is supposed to carry important info about the Arbians. Abdul emphasizes the importance of stopping such, so he might be used in ar06.
Morozov-he was supposed to lead the Russians before Yashin arrives, so if he gets killed he might lead the attack on epsilon in ar11 in his stead.
Also, if this is to make the Arabian Campaign official it shoud work both ways:
-Am11 intro (the killing scene) may have some familiar Arabian characters.
-Ru14 may have that other sheikh Hassan, along with any others that may be introduced in pro Arab missions, in new Samarkand.
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vanimpe
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

On the other hand, on the original camp you have lots of characteristic heroes from the enemy team:
Rus camp:
- Tim Gladstone on the first mission,
- Heike Steyer on the the 4th mission,
- Omar Ali and Hugh Stevens on the 5th mission,
- Again Heike Steyer on 7th mission,
- Kurt Schmidt and Heike Steyer on 8th mission,
- Joan Fergusson on 9th mission,
- John Macmillan on 11th mission.
- John Macmillan on 13 th mission,
- Heike Steyer/Robert Famer and Ralf Bergkamp on 14 mission and all the Sheiks on the Arab side
- Powell, Macmillan, Steyer/Farmer, on the 15th mission,

Am camp:
- Pokryszkin on the first mission,
- Michaił Bierozov on the second mission (used in cutscene before 5th mission in Rus camp),
- Kurt Schimdt on the 6th mission,
- Louis and his friends on 9th mission,
- Gensher on 10th mission,
- Hans Fliege and Mike Dalton on the 11th mission,
- Burlak on 13th mission,
- Vsevolod Gorky, Platonov, Peter Roth, Cathie Simms, Kurt Schmidt, Omar Ali, Heike Steyer on the 15th mission.

Alliance:
*Powell on the 12th mission and all of the Macmillan's friends.
* Abdul Shariff on the 13th mission,
*Hugh Stevens on the 14th mission,
*Powell & Platonov on the 15th mission.

There is a lot of similar heroes in both original camps.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

Most of which is main (JMM,Gorky,Powell,Platonov,Heike,sheikhs,Roth) or secondary(Vsevolod,Gladstone,Stevens,Kurt,Joan,Gensher) characters. Those are in arabian campaign already. Some were simply not develpoped, like Khattam or Gensher, which along with Louis make a nice relation to the mains.
Pokryszkin and Bierozov are the only minor ones that reappar. Stuffing the campaign with minor characters (like Louis' companinos, camera man and his ape(they tamed a lot of them after all), or someone who's name is mentioned only once) wherever possible is pushing it. The campaigns are related egnough as they are.
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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

0dd1 wrote:Stuffing the campaign with minor characters (like Louis' companinos, camera man and his ape(they tamed a lot of them after all), or someone who's name is mentioned only once) wherever possible is pushing it.
I think you're right. The character should play some role if it should replace a character playing a role. Ali Hadarach is almost so with respect to Willard. Hans Fliege and Mike Dalton is not with respect to Dwayne and Gonzo. What do you think about Hadarach -> Willard 0dd1?
0dd1 wrote:Grishko-in ru03 he notifies Kirov over radio about approaching "unidentified enemy" just before being fried. Could be placed in ar05_cont.
Gaydar-in ru04 he is supposed to carry important info about the Arbians. Abdul emphasizes the importance of stopping such, so he might be used in ar06.
Morozov-he was supposed to lead the Russians before Yashin arrives, so if he gets killed he might lead the attack on epsilon in ar11 in his stead.
Absolutely possible, we can do that. But do you really mean you want this added :P
0dd1 wrote:Also, if this is to make the Arabian Campaign official it shoud work both ways:
-Am11 intro (the killing scene) may have some familiar Arabian characters.
-Ru14 may have that other sheikh Hassan, along with any others that may be introduced in pro Arab missions, in new Samarkand.
vanimpe wrote:He should always look the same. Maybe, in next patch Stucuk should block Ali Hadarach face and change it for the same what will be in "Official" Arabian Camp.
Now that's the good thing about me being overburdened :P I also maintain the original campaigns :arsmile:
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

I think the main reason for my objection here is that I already gotten used to the names and faces. Objectively though, the things proposed here sound fair egnough, that is both Ali and Hans&Mike.

I don't really care one way or another, though Gaydar seems the most appropriate out of these three. We do see him on the run in Russian campaign and he is an actuall character. Plus it probably would give some satisfaction in gunning him down - I never liked the bastard.
Now that's the good thing about me being overburdened :P I also maintain the original campaigns :arsmile:
Just something to keep in mind for the time when it will be integrated into original war itself. It might be a little premature, but I just hate to be inaccurate.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

Hmm, i think that changing colonel Tsaritsyn (caricyn) on the mission 4 as a commander of Russian base to captain Timur Gajdar is a really good idea. Colonel Tsaritsyn is one of heroes of the later stage of ORIGINAL WAR. Timur Gajdar is hero who know a lot about Arabs (cos he for example fights with them).

Grishko should not be used in my opinion, he was under Famer's attack. (i don't why but i suppose) :D

Morozov should not be used.
-Am11 intro (the killing scene) may have some familiar Arabian characters.
Yea, they should be used. I think that Lucy Sebel should be used in prolegion mission 12.
We don't know anything about she, so she could be a good engineer and scientist. I attached a screen in which we can see her and her new role. It really fits the story, she betrays Arab and runaway from the base.

Wow, their faces are a little bit similar.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

Changing Tsaritsyn would mean rewriting a lot dialogues and he's is nicely transferred and developed from the brief appearance in Russian campaign. He's good where he is. I meant for Gaydar to appear as one of the pink escapee in mission 06. It would mean it's the exact opposite of Russian mission 04, where Gaydar has to be kept alive - because he's carrying important info. Then, in Ar06 the player would have to make sure he (and others like him) is dead - because he's carrying important info.

I meant it the other way around: some characters from Arabian campaign could be used in that Am11 intro.
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vanimpe
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

But adding Lucy Sebel to legion's mission 12 is easier thing to do. :D Especially, that McBenn used a random character.

This is great and easy to do idea: http://forum.original-war.net/download/file.php?id=355

Adding Gajdar to the PINK ARMY is bad idea because in Rus camp he was with Burlak.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by 0dd1 »

Now that You mentioned it, in Russian campaign Heike isn't running off after some scientist but is coordinating the attack on Burlak somewhere southwest of Kirov, so it doesn't fit!
Oh well, McBenn will just have to redo the whole Ar06 from the beginning.

Like I said before, the campaigns are more like alternatives than one unified story. Even if You wanted to do everything exactly like in campaigns, it couldn't possibly be done because the original ones are so full of discrepancies they sometimes fail to explain something within a single campain, much less relate it to others.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by vanimpe »

In mission 4 and 5 sheik says that they capture ussr officer. It could be Timur Gajdar, so he shouldn't be used.

Hahah, i have been thinking about it... Why Legion's base name is Barbarossa?
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