[EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

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Antitheus
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

McBenn wrote:I've been considering that myself but I can't come up with any good ideas as to what the options should be.
I was thinking about two query boxes:
1. Reason Kozlov
2. Make Farmer come to Russian base
Spoiler:
  • First one:
  • You've got developed research project, which Kozlov may find interesting - He laughs at you - "Flora and fauna"
  • You know how to treat "his kind" of people - offering him comfy life and revenge on Platonov's men - he's finding it interesting
  • He falls really low if he's helping such bastard as Farmer - He laughs at you "He's only following orders and he had other interesting ideas how to "solve" the conflict (Platonov underestimated his skills and treated him poorly, so he might planning the treason).
  • Threat him - He's turning enemy and begins to shot at you - "Platonov is going to kill me anyway"
If player chooses a wrong option (1, 3) - Kozlov is using a "key word" (he have agreed it with Farmer earlier -e.g. "summer holiday").
  • Second one:
    First variant (player didn't reason Kozlov - 1 or 3)
  • His base is under heavy siege - Farmer needs to appear there in person -"blablabla, let's get rid of this renegades and you'll be able to go to the summer holiday".
  • He has captured Heike and giving Farmer the chance of killing her - "blabla, get your revenge. Capturing her was like a summer holiday for me".
  • He wants to re-coordinate their plans - Renegades was tougher than Farmer said, so they must reach an agreement with "what to next" - "blabla, it's not summer holiday! Come here now"

    (After hearing of "summer holiday" Farmer is attacking player's base with tough forces).

    Second variant (player choose second option):
  • His base is under heavy siege - Farmer needs to appear there in person - Farmer says he got enough manpower and remote reinforcements to defend the base (Farmer can send him few soldiers)
  • He has captured Heike and giving Farmer the chance of killing her - He's glad to hear it and appears there shortly after the message.
  • He wants to re-coordinate their plans - Renegades was tougher than Farmer said, so they must reach an agreement with "what to next" - Farmer is certain their plans was related to dealing with Heike, so he's saying "We'll discuss the details about our attack on the motherlode later - now we must deal with Heike".
btw.
I've heard, that it's easy to get into Russian base with remote-controlled bombs and destroy the depot (I think players was talking about easy difficulty). Maybe you should consider adding few mines on the road (which won't kill you instantly but make your journey through Russian base a little harder).

And imho when player's attacking Russian base - from time to time Farmer forces could attack his base (with remote-controlled bombs or mortar operators). We could compensate it with adding few more apemens on the map.
Edit: Naah, moving Russian forces close to the depot was a good idea. It's quite hard to enter the base right now and if player stops attacking the base - they'll counterattack really soon (with Farmer), so player will be forced to retreat his forces. Good move.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

How's this:
Spoiler:
//Heike lures Farmer to the Russian base using Kozlov
$ D11-H-1
- Good job people. One down, one to go. But I still wonder how Farmer's reinforcements... wait! I've got an idea!

? QLureFarmer
Will you try to persuade Kozlov into summoning Farmer?
- Yes
- No
?

? QKozlovPersuade
How will you persuade Kozlov to help you?
- Offer him insigt into your technologies.
- Promise him revenge on Platonov.
- Threaten him.
?

$ D11-1-H-1
- Comrade Kozlov, I would like to ask a favor of you but I know it wouldn't be fair if I couldn't give anything in return.
$ D11-1-Ko-1
- Ha! As if you had anything I want, stinking mercenary!
$ D11-1-H-2
- I don't, but our scientists have. Surely the Red Army must have heard of our advanced optical and biometric tech. Interested?
$ D11-1-Ko-2
- Are you talking about the work of that monkey-brained crank Aziz-diul?! That's ridiculous! You mercenary scum have no comprehension of what real science is!

$ D11-2-H-1
- Nikita S. Kozlov. What's it like to work under the likes of Platonov?
$ D11-2-Ko-1
- I work for Mother Russia!
$ D11-2-H-2
- And yet you shack up with a creep like Robert Farmer.
$ D11-2-Ko-2
- Extreme challenges takes extreme means, you of all people should know!
$ D11-2-H-3
- Has the Red Army really fallen this low?
$ D11-2-Ko-3
- Who said this was about the Red Army? Platonov is a fool! A fool and a liar!
$ D11-2-H-4
- So what did you plan to do about it?
$ D11-2-Ko-4
- Screw you!
$ D11-2-H-5
- There's no need to be hostile, comrade. I can give you everything Farmer can, and more. We share a common goal, comrade: To rid Platonov from the face of this planet. I can help you, but first you need to help me.
$ D11-2-Ko-5
- Do you just expect me to join you after what you've done to my comrades?!
$ D11-2-H-6
- Consider the alternative. What do you say?
//Short pause
$ D11-2-Ko-6
- (into radio) Farmer, get your stinking carcass over here!
$ D11-2-Fa-1
- On my way, comrade.
//When Farmer arrives
$ D11-2-Fa-2
- WHAT THE...?!?

$ D11-3-H-2
- Kozlov! Call him, make him come here! Do it now!
$ D11-3-Ko-1
- frack you!
$ D11-3-H-3
- Do it!!
$ D11-3-Ko-2
- Farmer, I've captured our little rebellious songbird. Want to have a talk with her before she goes on summer holiday?
$ D11-3-Fa-1
- With pleasure comrade. Just give me five minutes.
Glad to hear that :) It's surprising how much harder it gets to enter the base if you just move the idle soldiers/bazookers a little closer to the entrance of the base. The auto-balancing (soldiers first spawning when their building is done) ensures that this is a viable approach.
Btw do you have language filters on the forums? Seems fu* get misspelled.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

Those dialogues looks great. In my opinion we should hamper this event, so it would be really difficult for player to shorten his mission. But on the other hand 33% of probability is quite enough.

Yup, we got mature language filters active - mostly for Polish offensive vocabulary (you would be surprised if you'd see length of the list :))


Edit: Hmm, I think we need some changes in Farmer attacks' algorithm. Player could easily block his offensive (both with blocking the development of the Russian base) by researching the mortars and ordering to shot at the Russian defenses (no harm to the base will be done but Farmer won't be attacking us). I think he should attack player's base from time to time - to draw his attention from the Russians.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

Dialogues implemented and attack procedure changed so Farmer's attacks won't be delayed by the Russians being attacked by the player.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

Polish update of txt18.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

Have anybody tried out the lag test? We have to determine if an "all-in" mission 15a is viable.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

All right, here goes my compilation of suggestions and my own ideas for mission 15a into an overall plan.
Spoiler:
The mission starts at Camp Barbarossa. Legion is trying to recover after Farmer's betrayal. The base is being repaired/fortified, vehicles are being built and Legion personnel is returning after having been scattered by the event. Among those returning are all main characters (that didn't hide in the forest next to Camp Barbarossa in mission 14a). Some of them have spend their time wisely as they have scouted around the siberite motherlode. They inform Heike what is going on and Heike decides to rush to the motherlode immediately. The number of people you can take with you and the amount of starting resources depends on how damaged Camp Barbarossa was in mission 14a.
If you captured Kozlov in mission 14a but didn't convince him to join you he has committed suicide.

The map for the next part of the mission will roughly be the same as the one Antitheus proposed here. The Russians are sitting on the motherlode to the north, the Americans have a base to the south and Alliance theirs in between. The Arabians are somewhere to the southeast and the only real option the player has for building a base is to the east. There's no hill but a strange circle with small hills on the periphery (like in Ru15). There's oil but no siberite source so the player must build a mine on the part of the motherlode outside the Russian base to get siberite.
The Russians are very defensive because they know they can't be bombed because they are sitting on the motherlode. The Russians are lead by Platonov.
The Americans are furiously attacking Alliance so they can get through to the Russians. They could also beat the Arabians and get past that way but there's a narrow pass over a river which are easily defended even by the relatively weak Arabian defences. Furthermore the Americans are mad at the traitors having joined Alliance. Good old Powell is the commander.
Alliance have possession of all artefacts: Burlak provided the Russian one; Alliance stole the Arabian one (which was captured by the player in mission 10) (freeing Gossudarov at the same time) by attacking New Kaaba, killing Abdul in the process so Omar now is head of the Arabians; [I don't remember where the third artefact comes from...]. Also in their base they have the big alien building like in the American/Alliance last mission. Alliance is desperately trying to reconcile all parties but it's completely hopeless. In time, if the player doesn't intervene, the Americans will crush Alliance and start attacking the Russians. The Alliance is lead by Roth and Gossudarov (if the latter wasn't killed in mission 10). I'm considering of Burlak and JMM should both be dead at this point.
The Arabians are also a little late so they haven't really played a role yet but soon after the player's arrival they regularly send out scientists to try and contaminate the motherlode. If the player doesn't stop them they will succeed. The player's base will have to be moved a few paces to the east for this to be challenging. This will result in the map not entirely conforming to Ru15. As mentioned Omar commands the Arabians.

When the player arrives a scout briefly informs Heike of the situation. Also shortly hereafter there's a radio dialogue between all parties where their separate intends are confirmed. Heike learns about Abdul's death through a direct dialogue with Omar.

If the player has Kozlov on his/her side the Russians are willing to strike a deal: Hand over Kozlov and we will not hurt you. If the player does so the Russians will not attack the player unless he/she builds a siberite mine on the motherlode. If not the Russians will regularly attack the player. If the player doesn't have Kozlov the Russians will still attack but with weaker forces.
All other negotiation with the Russians is futile.
At some point the Russians will develop behemoths. They cannot exit the base so they are built just outside it.
When the Russians have developed the siberite bomb they bomb the player first if he/she has Kozlov. Else the Americans first and then Legion.

The Americans initially resent Legion because of what they did in mission 13a. But if the player hands over Kozlov to them (if present) and destroys Alliance or the Arabians and let the Americans through to the Russians they become more friendly. Combining attacks with the Americans the player may be able to crush the Russians despite their heavy defences. When the Russians are defeated the Americans immediately turn against you.
When the Americans build the siberite bomb (which they will do faster if some scientists escaped in mission 13a) they bomb the player first if he/she has Kozlov. Else Alliance if they player allied with them. Else (after some time) they bomb the Russians out of desperation causing the player to lose.
A minor twist is that if Rolf wasn't killed in mission 12a or 13a he has now joined the Americans giving them mortars.

The Alliance is generally easier to talk to not just because they want to make peace through non-violent methods but because they are militarily weak and the Americans keep pounding them. They do have some conditions, though, one of them being that you will not research or build the siberite bomb (only possible if you have Kozlov). If you do anyway they will immediately break with you (they have the vision artefact to they can see what you're doing). Another condition could be giving them a certain amount of siberite but I'm not sure about this.
If the player makes friends with them he/she has to protect them against the Americans. After some time this gets even tougher because the Americans ally with the Arabians so both are attacking Alliance (or the player). This alliance is possible because both the Arabians and the Americans essentially want to get through to the motherlode. Of course the Americans are not too happy about the Arabians getting too near the motherlode but they are getting desperate.
The Alliance has a master plan where they need the player's military power. First they have to get rid of the Americans. Then it's the Russians's turn.
The Americans are solely using siberite power so to beat them the Alliance will blow all their siberite power plants and siberite vehicles just before the player attacks leaving their base virtually defenceless. This requires a considerable amount of siberite, though. They have a siberite mine themselves but in order to make it in time before the Americans or the Russians develop the siberite bomb the player has to supply siberite as well which in turn is not so simple because the player doesn't have a siberite source in his/her base. One possibility is to build a mine on the motherlode upsetting the Russians. Another is defeating the Arabians claiming their siberite mines.
To defeat the Russians Alliance will teleport a bunch of the player's units directly into the Russian base using the alien building and corresponding artefact (the blow-up-power-trick doesn't work with the Russians because they also have oil power). This again takes a load of siberite but that's easier to get now that the Americans's siberite mines are available. When the Russians are defeated the player betrays the Alliance and refuses to step down from the motherlode. This of course infuriates the Alliance but there is generally nothing they can do as they don't really have any military strength.
If the player doesn't ally with the Alliance they harass from time to from by blowing up siberite related stuff like power plants and vehicles. They do always, however, blow up siberite bombs. Maybe they even teleport units randomly around the map like teleporting the American units attacking them just outside the player's base.
If the player destroys the Alliance he/she can take the artefacts and start researching them himself/herself, essentially giving the same options as working together with the Alliance (except they have already done all the research).

Negotiations with the Arabians are futile.
At some point some of your old friends who stayed true to the Arabians ask if they can join you. If you accept them they will work for you but only for a short while because briefly thereafter the Arabians make an all-in attack (this will probably be when or just before the Americans or the Russians develop the siberite bomb). You're "friends" then blow bombs inside your base, kind of like what the Freelancers may do in mission 13a. Furthermore if Gensher wasn't killed in mission 13a UPF folks will attack from the north. As is implied the purpose is not to get past Legion but to destroy them and then contaminate the motherlode.

The player is free not to ally with anyone and just develop the siberite bomb himself/herself (as mentioned before this is only possible if you have Kozlov). If you do the Americans and Russians will hesitate to bomb you - for a while. The player can of course fire the bomb but Heike isn't too happy about it (worried about the long-term consequences, radiation and the like).


Medals:
- No loses
- Didn't fire the siberite bomb (if built it)
- ???

Mission name:
Showdown
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

Ehm, a little feedback would be nice.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

I'll translate it, when I got some time. Also, I'll create a separate topic and share the link on FB.

All of the things, which you've proposed, are great but I don't understand the reason of building the depot and the mine on the motherlode by Arabians. Couldn't they just contaminate it?
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Pawlo »

The player can of course fire the bomb but Heike isn't too happy about it (worried about the long-term consequences, radiation and the like).
Why would she be worried about that? Don't like idea with giving medal for not using bomb ; (
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by McBenn »

Ok fine, just couldn't understand the utter silence.

Hey hey what do you know. Had no idea Arabs could just contaminate a source without a mine on it :? That makes it a lot easier.

@Pawlo
It may be a little far-fetched but it was the only other idea I had besides the standard "no loses" medal. I have no problems dropping it.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

Imho the idea of discouraging player from building and dropping the bomb is an interesting and excellent one. The mission would be harder and not so boring as Ru15 (just drop 2 or more bombs). And McBenn's idea is somewhat equal with Altar's characteristics of Heike. Her attitude towards the meaning of life have changed during the time of her captivity.

Player could build the bomb and gain some respect (Platonov and Powell won't nuke him). The trick is to have a weapon, but do not use it - like in normal conflicts.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Pawlo »

Instead of punishing player for using bomb I'd give a medal "don't allow anybody to use bomb (except you-player)" Explanation: player has to act fast and make enought good diplomatic conversations (part of them would be optional - part of forced by campaign.) to not get bombed. If any nation will fire bomb then every else also will and practical that could be "a mission failed". But if you'd be good enought you would be able to shoot sib bomb at americans knowing that arabs can't do that and you can't shoot it at russians (but if russians will bomb the americans they will miss a little and american's hidden sib bomb in revange will shoot to russians and mission failed.

Yes, little wonky but i'm little wasted. Will correct later.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Antitheus »

You can't let anyone using the bomb anyway. If someone fires it - it's heading straight into your base - it means you're with 80% probability finished.
But building the bomb is your own choice and firing it makes the game much more easier. McBenn's idea is relevant per se.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

Post by Pawlo »

Why's that? Arabians could be nuked by Ru or Am or Am nuked(tried or not) by Ru. And in middle of that - we - players. Of course if we'd play very long
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