[EN] Missions 12-15 Legion

[jarmok]

Most of this campaingn is like this, you just need to figure mission out

Spoiler:

I let Gossudarov's men go, so that makes it easier. Capturing Kozlov is tricky but that trap for Farmer is nice. And you need to use main entrance, but everyone finds that out after first try

And mission 13

Spoiler:

someone will always leave if you don't finish it fast?

[McBenn]

I just meant that hard difficulty should still be a challenge even after you've figured out the trick.

Mission 13.

Spoiler:

You have probably figured out that The Freelancers and Louis's group can't stand each other so eventually you will be forced to choose one of them. But as you say, if you time it correctly you can finish the mission with both of them still at your side.

[McBenn]

@Pawlo
I've tried to optimize the code for mission 11. Try and see if it's better now.
By the way, scrolling through the code I realized that this mission must have a lot of waiting until Gensher decides to run for it. Is it too much or? Also, is the crate drop rate ok? Sounds like it may be a bit too high.

I've composed a test mission to see how much lagg 4 AI's attacking simultaneously would produce (so this is like the worst case scenario). Test it out and tell how bad it is. Personally I get some laggs but it's not that bad.
The map has a computer player in each corner and they attack each other clockwise at the same time. There are some units in the middle you can play around with to see how bad the laggs are.

[Antitheus]

I've tried to test the newest release.

• 14a medium
• We need to find any solution for the "Russian crowd". The game is lagging in the first 30 seconds of the mission (Russians are spawning?). And it's easy to kill Kozlov this way (he's hiding between common soldiers). He should be placed in the lab or depot.
• Isn't it strange, that Farmer is helping the Russians after you've completely destroyed their base? I mean he's teleporting his vehicles into the Ru base area, when my soldiers are near.
• Russians didn't build any turrets (except the computer-controlled time lapsers).
• Ekhm, Camp Barbarossa is superior. Well... AI is well developed - a little too much. First of all, the units are healed in lightening-speed - I think 1-2 scientists designed to healing ppl is quite much (otherwise it's almost impossible to kill the unit - e.g. engineer, which is endless running from the building to scientists). Second, after destroying depot - the whole base rushes on me and after that - they're swarming in one place like Russians. Player got poor manpower (4 experienced soldiers - attacked the base from east flank in order to causing lesser destruction). I think, for the player's sake, they should stay on their places (or exit the turret and stand by).
• Kozlov was mingled with common soldiers, so I've killed him by accident. I've attacked Camp Barbarossa and destroyed 2 bunkers, 1 turret (necessary if I wanted to enter the base from the eastern flank without any losses) and factory (after I realized the fact, it's impossible to enter the main square (rocket launchers everywhere) I needed to destroy the factory in order to getting close to depot) and I didn't got the medal. Does destroying the factory extensions is counted as destroying of the normal building?

[McBenn]

- Lagg should be almost gone now. It's caused by the AI's units moving to the respective buildings. They are just all spawned in one placed in the beginning of the mission.
- Kozlov stays in a lab.
- Farmer shouldn't teleport vehicles to the Russians if they have been defeated, defined as all human units are dead (not just bleeding).
- You were probably lucky. Which buildings the Russians build first is completely random. But it could also have been because of a bug I found.
- Number of scientists and engineers reduced for Farmer.
- Soldiers stay near their burning bunker/breastwork.
- Factory extensions count as buildings, yes. Destroying just one of them probably renders the factory unable to produce vehicles.
- ... and some other stuff I found on the way. Check the changelog.

[Antitheus]

You were probably lucky. Which buildings the Russians build first is completely random. But it could also have been because of a bug I found.

I don't consider myself being lucky this time - I've checked it few times on medium difficulty . And every time - same situation (even when I was waiting for them to develop it - they started attacking me with rockets and time lapsers, but there was no sign of their defences).
I'll check easy difficulty and the newest commit.

Edit:
The newest release is working great. I only got one "range exception" error when _cont2 was loaded at first time. Russian base-developing scripts are working perfect. The Russians are still crawling in the one place, but when I'm shooting at the buildings, some of them (2 or 3 soldiers) are trying to stop me ("reducing the crowd") - is it intentional? Great solution anyway. But imho some of the Russians may appear after their building is completed (less characters on the map at the beginning and the biodetection spots wouldn't be so funny.

And yours "extra men" - is it possible to make them more experienced in some secondary skills? They're dying as soon as combat starts.

[waz]

Zastanawiałem się nad fabułą ostatniej misji. Pomyślałem też jakie wątki można by było poruszyć w finałowej rozgrywce. Moje propozycje:

Spoiler:

Wstępnie ustalono, że przez zdradę Farmera działania Legionu zostały opóźnione. Heike wyrusza wraz swoją armią w okolice głównego złoża.

- Od kogo Heike mogłaby się dowiedzieć o istnieniu głównego złoża? Tutaj na myśl przychodzi mi brak obecności Ralpha Douglasa w misji 14. jeśli nie zabraliśmy go do drużyny. Zastanawiam się, czy Ralph w ogóle nie mógłby być dostępny w tej misji a zamiast tego pójść na "samowolkę" w trakcie rzezi w Barbarossie i wykonać częściowo pierwotne zadanie jakie miało należeć do Heike. Dzięki temu mógłby on pod koniec misji 14. poinformować dlaczego Rosjanie, Amerykanie i Arabowie zaczęli mobilizację swych sił.

- Kwestia Kozłowa. Legion w kampanii amerykańskiej mógł posiadać bombę syberytową od Kozłowa, jednak Kozłow zrobił to z własnej woli. Tutaj mamy sytuację w której bierzemy Kozłowa w niewolę i zakładam, że dzięki niemu Heike może być w posiadaniu bomby. Jednak nie wiem jak można by było przekonać Rosjanina do współpracy.

- Jeśli Kozłowa nie ma, tj. nie udało nam się go schwytać w misji 14. lub go uśmierciliśmy to powinna istnieć alternatywa w kwestii bomby syberytowej. Może Legion mógłby przechwycić w misji 15. rozmowę między Płatonowem a oddziałem zajmującym się testowaniem nowych broni (tu na myśl przychodzi mi Dmitri Plesnov z misji 9., który może wyzwać Heike na pojedynek strzelecki, jeśli Dmitri nie żyje, może być to Yakow z tej samej misji). Oddział ten może transportować plany bomby, których domaga się Płatonow. Zadaniem Heike jest zdobyć te plany (pojmać Dmitria lub Yakowa i zmusić ich do budowy laboratorium i fabryki). Konwój ten powinien być silnie strzeżony.

- W kampaniach OW giną głównodowodzący armii (Harrison, Jaszin). Szejk Abdul również powinien zginąć (zabity przez Przymierze, które przy okazji odzyskało artefakt zdobyty przez nas w misji 10.). Głównym dowódcą zostaje Omar i to on będzie chciał skazić złoże.

- Przymierze. Jako dowódców tego ugrupowania widzę Macmillana, Burłaka, Rotha i Gossudarowa (jeśli nie zabiliśmy go w misji 10., został przy okazji odbity z niewoli przez Przymierze). Generalnie w kampaniach OW Przymierze i Legion nie rywalizowali ze sobą i tu widzę szansę na jakieś porozumienie między stronami.

- Uważam, że warto by poruszyć wątek pomiędzy Kurtem a Macmillanem. W końcu Kurt wylądował w amerykańskiej bazie, jak sam to przyznał. Wiadomo o co chodzi. Kurt jest wierny Heike i nie widziałbym ewentualnej zdrady Kurta (Macmillan w końcu darował mu życie).

- Na czele Amerykanów stoi Powell, który stara się odnowić badania nad bombą syberytową. Dowiaduje się o tym, że dysponujemy planami bomby i nas atakuje.

- W bazie Rosjan mogłyby być gotowe Behemoty na straży. Gdyby doszło do zdobycia przez nas planów bomby, Płatonow wpadłby w szał i wysłałby na nas silne ataki (dla urozmaicenia rozgrywki).

Na chwilę obecną nic nie przychodzi mi nowego do głowy.

Sorry, McBenn, but I have not much time for translation.

[McBenn]

The Russians are still crawling in the one place, but when I'm shooting at the buildings, some of them (2 or 3 soldiers) are trying to stop me ("reducing the crowd") - is it intentional?

Partly, yes. They are only told to be within a limited distance of a certain hex and are ordered back to the hex if they get too far away with an AgressiveMove command. That can produce the effect you describe but honestly I never thought of it

But imho some of the Russians may appear after their building is completed (less characters on the map at the beginning and the biodetection spots wouldn't be so funny.

Hm ya maybe you could do that. I just don't like to insinuate that the Russians are getting reinforcements. They are only them. Way behind enemy (American) lines.

And yours "extra men" - is it possible to make them more experienced in some secondary skills?

The "extra men" are people from previous missions. I could be an idiot and tell you to just level up your men better yourself


By the way I have been considering if we should prolong the time it takes for Farmers/Russians attacks to become stronger, at least on medium and easy. To make it possible to complete the mission using forces of vehicles too, not just forces of primarily mortars.


@waz
It's ok. I just hope someone else has because google isn't always that clever

[Antitheus]

By the way I have been considering if we should prolong the time it takes for Farmers/Russians attacks to become stronger, at least on medium and easy. To make it possible to complete the mission using forces of vehicles too, not just forces of primarily mortars.

I'm attacking Russians with combined forces of my man and vehicles. Thankfully, when I'm starting my attack on Russians, Farmer stops the attacks on my base and switch to defense of the Russian base. When attacking Farmer's base, I'm forced to use man only - attacking with vehicles would be equal with destroying them (my vehicles) after few seconds.

Hm ya maybe you could do that. I just don't like to insinuate that the Russians are getting reinforcements. They are only them. Way behind enemy (American) lines.

I'm not thinking about this solution as "reinforcements". It's a manipulation used by Altar to reduce the number of "unoccupied" men. I think it would be proper here. Eventually, you can build some armory for them.

[nadwrazliwosc_zebow]

Waz's text:

Spoiler:

It was initially decided that because of Farmer's betrayal Legion's actions were delayed. Heike with her army goes to the motherlode area.

- Who could tell Heike about existence of motherlode? I think about Ralph Douglas's absence in Ar14a if player didn't choose him to the team. Wonder if Ralph could be always unavailable in this mission, but instead of it leave Camp Barbarossa during the massacre and partially complete Heike's task. Thus, near the and od Ar14a he can inform Heike why Russians, Americans and Arabs began mobilizing their forces.

- Issue of Kozlov. Legion in US campaign could obtain siberite bomb from Kozlov, but he did it of his own accord. Here we have a situation when we take Kozlov into captivity and I assume that thanks to him Heike also can obtain the bomb. But I don't know, how to convince him to cooperate.

- If Kozlov is absent, so player didn't catch him or killed him, there should be some alternative in bomb issue. For example, Legion can intercept in Ar15a a conversation between Platonov and some squad working at testing new weapons. I think about Dmitry Plesnov from Ar09 (guy, who can challenge Heike in some shooting duel; or if Dmitry is dead, it may be Yakov from the same mission). This squad may transport plans of Platonov's bomb. Heike's task is to gain those plans (catch Dmitry/Yakov and force them to build lab & factory). This convoy should be strongly secured.

- In both OW campaigns main commanders (Harrison, Yashin) die. Sheikh Abdul also should die (killed by the Alliance that by the way recaptured artefact that player gained in Ar10). Main commander would be Omar and he should be the one who wants to contaminate motherlode.

- The Alliance. In my opinion their commanders should be Macmillan, Burlak, Roth and Gossudarov (if not killed in Ar10, also was recaptured during the attack). Generally in OW campaigns the Alliance and Legion didn't compete so I see a chance to some agreement between those sides.

- I think we should raise the subject of Kurt & Macmillan. Kurt landed in American base (Am06) and Macmillan saved his life, as we know. But Kurt is also loyal to Heike, so I wouldn't see his betrayal.

- Powell as American main commander would try to renew their works at siberite bomb. He would attack the player when he finds out that we have the plans (just like in Am15).

- In Russian base there may be some Behemots as a guard. If player gains the plans of Russian bomb, Platonov would go berserk and send strong attacks against us (just for variety of the game).

[McBenn]

I'm attacking Russians with combined forces of my man and vehicles.

When you do, how many turrets/bunkers have the Russians built?

I'm not thinking about this solution as "reinforcements". It's a manipulation used by Altar to reduce the number of "unoccupied" men. I think it would be proper here. Eventually, you can build some armory for them.

Hm alright. So how should it go exactly? Keep the unoccupied men at a fixed number by spawning one more when a bunker/breastwork is built? And where to spawn the guy/gal? Just near the border or among the other folks?

@nadwrazliwosc_zebow
Thanks man Perhaps I should take a course in Polish some time

- Who could tell Heike about existence of motherlode? (...)
Good idea but it doesn't have to be Ralph specifically. It could be anyone having survived the massacre.

- Issue of Kozlov. (...)
"A gun and nice works are better than nice words alone" (Al Capone)

- If Kozlov is absent, (...)
That's also an option even if you do capture Kozlov. But wouldn't it be ok if the player couldn't built the bomb in 15a? There will probably be many ways to win.

- In both OW campaigns main commanders (...)
Exactly my thought.

- The Alliance. (...)
Absolutely. Legion will probably stab them in the back but negotiations are possible.

- I think we should raise the subject of Kurt & Macmillan. (...)
I'm not sure what you want to say, but sure, I don't expect Kurt to be anything else than loyal to Heike.

- Powell as American main commander would try to renew (...)
And the fact that we foiled his siberite research in the first place probably won't make him any happier

- In Russian base there may be some Behemots (...)
I agree the Russians should have behemoths. And ya Platonov is gonna go crazy if we intercept his bomb.

[nadwrazliwosc_zebow]

Perhaps I should take a course in Polish some time

Just after ending Arabian Campaign when our language will be totally useless for you?

@Ralph - imho it's a good idea to use person that player well knows. Ralph appears in Ar02, so very fast, and it's easy to remember him. But if we decide on this version, we have to think what if he's dead. Use other character? Create other version of Ar15a (because Heike can check, what's up, after defeating Farmer&Kozlov - so she loses some time and in Ar15a opponents are stronger)?

@Kurt - what I think waz wanted to say is: Kurt is loyal to Heike, but also thankful to Macmillan, because he saved his life. If Legion co-operates with the Alliance, in some moment only those 2 sides will stay. This is the moment when Heike probably betrays them. Kurt may have some objections to this, because he doesn't want to betray Macmillan - he has a debt of gratitude and this is a time when he can pay off.

[Antitheus]

When you do, how many turrets/bunkers have the Russians built?

I think I was giving them lots of time to develop their base (playing about 45 min, where +/- 15 min for attack). It's hard to tell; they got about 3 time lapsers, Bunker with bazooker on the north, 3 long distance rockets, 2 canons, 1 Gatling gun - on medium difficulty.
btw. isn't it strange, that time lapsing turrets are working after the depot is destroyed?

Hm alright. So how should it go exactly? Keep the unoccupied men at a fixed number by spawning one more when a bunker/breastwork is built? And where to spawn the guy/gal? Just near the border or among the other folks?

My skills are to low to figure out the "base developing" algorithm, but I was thinking about something like that: turret or bunker is being under construction (or after it's construction) - soldier is spawning (on the base's western edge of the map). You could set up some starting party (e.g. 5 soldiers for defending the hill) and the rest would be spawned, when their buildings are completed.

And I was thinking about the Farmer coming into Kozlov's base - I think you could make it a little harder for the player and set up the query box "What should Kozlov say?" - 4 options, only 1 will make Farmer appear in the base

The "extra men" are people from previous missions. I could be an idiot and tell you to just level up your men better yourself.

Yeah, right. But be aware of the fact, in original campaign your "secondary" man receive a nice boost. They're weaker than your "primary" friends, but they're able to do something

[jarmok]

Perhaps I should take a course in Polish some time

Just after ending Arabian Campaign when our language will be totally useless for you?

@Ralph - imho it's a good idea to use person that player well knows. Ralph appears in Ar02, so very fast, and it's easy to remember him. But if we decide on this version, we have to think what if he's dead. Use other character? Create other version of Ar15a (because Heike can check, what's up, after defeating Farmer&Kozlov - so she loses some time and in Ar15a opponents are stronger)?

@Kurt - what I think waz wanted to say is: Kurt is loyal to Heike, but also thankful to Macmillan, because he saved his life. If Legion co-operates with the Alliance, in some moment only those 2 sides will stay. This is the moment when Heike probably betrays them. Kurt may have some objections to this, because he doesn't want to betray Macmillan - he has a debt of gratitude and this is a time when he can pay off.

Yeah, he will be thankful like in AM15 when he nukes you if you are slow

[McBenn]

@adwrazliwosc_zebow
- Just after ending Arabian Campaign when our language will be totally useless for you?
There's still 5 missions left and dubbing afterwards. It's not quite done yet

- Ralph - imho it's a good idea to use person that player well knows. (...)
If Ralph is dead we'll just make another main character do the talking. That's why it can be a pain sometimes to write the dialogues. You have to take into consideration that some people may be dead.

- Kurt - what I think waz wanted to say is: (...)
Ah ok like that. I'm kinda with jarmok here. He may be grateful towards JMM but I don't think it's something he feels he has to pay back.

@Antitheus
- btw. isn't it strange, that time lapsing turrets are working after the depot is destroyed?
Yup. Didn't notice that myself. Engine bug.

- My skills are to low to figure out the "base developing" algorithm, but I was thinking about something like that: (...)
Implemented.

- And I was thinking about the Farmer coming into Kozlov's base (...)
I've been considering that myself but I can't come up with any good ideas as to what the options should be.

- Yeah, right. But be aware of the fact, in original campaign your "secondary" (...)
I've boosted the secondary people a little but if you haven't killed many of your primary friends in the previous campaigns no secondary people should spawn (perhaps on easy difficulty though). I'm careful to ensure that ppl are given xp bonuses if they jump missions but I could have missed something.