[EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Dział poświęcony projektowi Arabian Campaign

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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by McBenn »

0dd1 wrote:Do You think we could get more feedback if I translated the script to polish?
Phh well it would open the possibility of more people reading it but I think there's less of a chance people will find that document and read it than read this thread. And the manuscript tends to change a lot so it won't be easy to keep the translation in sync. Actually I think it's gonna be a waste of effort.
People are much better at giving feedback on "the finished product" so to speak. Nice but ofc you can't change major decisions at that point. We are a handful of people who think the current outline is good and I think that's fine. As there are many roads to Rome there are many ways to create a good campaign storyline and I think we are on the right track. I created the first 9 missions before I got any significant feedback at all.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

Perhaps I misspoke. By feedback I thought of encouraging people to post some new ideas (which would be of most use when regarding Ar14 and Ar15), rather that just commenting on established points of storyline. Since we're now focused on first two missions, the discussions for next ones are more or less stagnant. Unless others speak up, in which a summary of what is established so far would be helpfull.
I saw some people asking about Arabian campaign in the news thread, so I'll post it there.

Actually I already took the liberty of getting to it, just thought I should mention it before. I have it almost done at this point.
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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by McBenn »

You may have a point there. Ar12 and Ar13 are well established. They won't change much. And ofc it would be nice to get ideas and feedback for Ar14 and Ar15. Carry on, I say :arsmile:
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

Streszczenie po polsku:
Streszczenie Arabskich misji.rar
(121.11 KiB) Downloaded 117 times
Tekst w [] nie jest jeszcze do końca ustalony i wymaga dalszej dyskusji.
Dodałem kilka wyjaśnień od siebie w {} bo część dokumentu zawierała tylko końcowe ustalenia, bez argumentów które do nich doprowadziły (które są zawarte w kilku poprzednich stronach tego tematu).

Misje 12 i 13 są już na tyle dopracowane że przeszliśmy od gadania do robienia (choć na błyskawiczne efekty nie ma co liczyć).
Misje 14 i 15 mają ogólny zarys, lecz wciąż przydałyby się nowe pomysły.


Translated the document.
I added few explanations on my own (tagged by {} ) since some parts of the document had only the final consensus without the reasoning behind it.
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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by McBenn »

*thumbs up*
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

An idea for Ar14. Expanding the gathering resources objective.

How should this work in practice? Would the player continuously send cargos out of map or gather a large supply in cargos until the end of mission? I personally don't think Heike would take them with her to the last part of the mission, but instead send them away along with some people, while she and the rest go to save Gensher. And I suppose most of the cargos should be ape driven, or else it would require that the player has to have at least one very skilled mechanic to drive all the remotes.

One of the Russian bases (one of the bigger ones, presumably) could contain a teleport, which was previously used to transfer most, if not all, of the force which attacked Samarkand (could be said that it's part of the reason why it fell so quickly). If the exit wasn't changed, then Heike could use it to send captured resources far out of harms way, point being that they are still in enemy teritory and may get attacked and loose afew of the cargos along the way.
The area where Samarkand was should be cleared as all the Russians moved up north (though they may send a radar first to confirm that).

If it's not too unreasonable, because no other teleport in other campaigns was sending units quite that far (though the exit doesn't have to be that far north), it would need some dialogue indication beforehand so the player should take a look on the teleport and doesn't start sending cargos the regular way. I guess the dialogue can start when first seeing the teleport, since the main objective requires visiting Russian bases on map.

Basically:
- The player starts with the secondary objective of gathering extra resources and packing them in cargos for transport. They would be kept somewhere on map until the end of this part of the mission, and then some people from player forces would lead the convoy. Because they're still in enemy teritory they get attacked along the way and the amount of cargos is always diminished (on arrival in next mission) by some fixed number.
- Once the player takes over the teleport, the cargos can be sent during the mission. To make it challenging the Russians should try to attack and destroy the teleport, so the player has to defend it on top of everything else until all resources are transported. Could also be a requirement to destroy it afterwards. In case the player looses the teleport early, more resources can still be sent at the end the regular way.

That would make up two medals: one for gathering egnough supplies (cargos through teleport + (cargos the longer way - what's lost along the way)), the other if all supplies are sent through the teleport, because the player doesn't take the risk of loosing some of them.
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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by McBenn »

I agree that Heike would not send the cargos away one by one as they are filled but will send them all in one cortege with military protection before setting out to help Gensher. If Gensher hadn't needed help she would have escorted the cargo bays herself as she pulled back.
And I suppose she will take the surplus cargo bays from Ar13 with her but that won't be enough so she will have to build or capture some in Ar14 herself.

The safe route through a teleporter you have to protect sounds like a good idea. Especially because it can partly explain why Samarkhand fell so quickly. As for the practical application I think an approach like this is viable: Make it possible to only enter the teleporter from one direction and place the teleport exit exactly where you can enter the teleporter. Then go

Code: Select all

on unitteleported(teleporter, teleported_unit) do
begin
     wait(0$1);
     destroyunit(teleported_unit);
end;
It's necessary to wait until the teleport animation has finished because else the health bar of the unit will stay on the map (oy I love OW and its quirks...).
And I guess there should be some mechanism preventing humans from entering the teleporter.
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

I have been doing some preparatory work for mission 14 for a while now. Since there seems to be no issues brought up about Ar13, I went a little ahead to take a look at proportions of mission 14. Here's an examplary sketch of the genral points we made so far. Note that it's the biggest map size possible. I'm in no way saying this is how it should look like, but seeing how little input we get at this point, it may well end up as a actuall map after few tweaks. Also note there is no Legion presence, if they are to appear in mission some room has to be made for them. And there's no teleport included.
Ar14.jpg
(1.35 MiB) Not downloaded yet
I noticed the base from Am12 is smaller and much less fortified compared to what we are used to seeing in ArCamp and it would be funny to add tons of fortifications to it, but beside that, heavy (meaning impossible) fortifications would make it impossible to approach and take a look at. If the player never sees the base there's no reason to bother with copying the layout from American mission. Because of that I also implemented a milder solution, to cover the base with a hill and a river like on the left side, where the water prevents approaching and rocket firing, but a hovercraft radar can get close egnugh to take a look at the base. It seems like a better solution, but on the other hand if there were any mobile units (which should be limited in this mission I think) on map it would be nice to have a safe point of spawning for them, although the road exits from the map can also work.

Simply put, should the base have an entrance where the question mark is, or should the water be extended to the right and all the fortifications removed?

I also made some calculations regarding first part of Ar15 because of the carryover of resources gathered in 14. It's largely just guessing, but I have concluded a few numbers, about how much resources would need to be on this map.
Ar14 prep.txt
(3.65 KiB) Downloaded 45 times
Ar15 prep.txt
(10.59 KiB) Downloaded 37 times
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by Nefarem »

An interesting map but why do not you do a sketch map of how to have a look ? Now texturing this map will be very difficult.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

Simply because I have no drawing skill at all. Besides it's better to get a sense of proportions of how will this look in practice, as a part of mission planning (the preps txt) - like how many bases can the map hold, where should they be located etc. Would it be better to leave the actuall map creating to someone who would do the textures as well?


Po prostu dlatego że ni cholery nie umiem rysować. Poza tym tak można lepiej wyczuć proporcje, czyli jak to ma wyglądać w praktyce, jako część planowania misji - jak na przykład ile baz może się zmieścić i gdzie miały by stać etc. Czy byłoby lepiej gdyby mapę zrobiła ta samo osoba co tekstury?
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by Serpent »

0dd1 wrote:Czy byłoby lepiej gdyby mapę zrobiła ta samo osoba co tekstury?
Tak robi większość moderów którzy robią "swoje mapy". Łatwiej zrobić strukturę pod gotowe tekstury niż szukać odpowiednich tekstur dla struktury. Niestety my nie używamy Bryce tak jak Altar do generowania tekstur więc musimy bazować na już istniejących. Stąd cały problem.
Epickie teksty:
Marek1906: jak zrobic aby sail był zielony?
Kvantovy: Wszystko normalne, wszystko w koło było dziwne
Kvantovy:: To jest fajne, że to nie jest takie głupie
Kvantovy:: remove sos from kanapeczka
Kvantovy:: zdarzają się rzezy które sie filozofom nie śniły
Cenwen: problemem jest gejostwo
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0dd1
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by 0dd1 »

No cóż, napisałem już wcześniej że to tylko taki pomysł na mapę, więc można to potraktować jako wstępny szkic, który jeszcze trzeba dopracować. Ale w takim razie tym lepiej jest wziąć się za to od razu, żeby mieć gotowy plan zanim misja będzie tworzona, jeśli znalazłby się ktoś chętny do tekstur.
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Gelwe
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by Gelwe »

Tekstury można zrobić w programie Bryce jak to robił Altar, więc jeśli jest na tym forum osoba która potrafi w nim tworzyć z pewnością da radę zrobić tekstury do OW.

EDIT: Załączam przykładowe tekstury, które udało mi się zrobić.
Image
Image
Image
Creative wrote:Image
Chodziło mi o to że sam przerabiam zrobione mapy. (budynki, ludki itd)
A co do saila to przecież sam muszę wklejać
.
Creative wrote: Jak chcesz mogę ci pomóc. Jestem doświadczonym modderem, zrobiłem 2 mody i 3 w drodze ;) Kontakt PW.
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by Nefarem »

http://scr.hu/2yw5/fdf22 Tak wygląda w edytorze.
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Spoiler:
Modyfikacja opowiadająca historię Ivana Bierezova, żołnierza armii Rosyjskiej , weterana wojny w Chinach który wziął udział w misji ochrony złóż Alaskitu.

Download from Dropbox
Original War Cooperation
Spoiler:
Modyfikacja umożliwiająca granie w mapach z kampanii OW i nie tylko ze znajomymi kontra AI.

Download from Steam

Download from Dropbox
Original War Dialog Editor
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Program ułatwiający tworzenie plików wri z dialogami, zadaniami etc do Original War .

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McBenn
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Re: [EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

Post by McBenn »

I have always refrained from lettings others make the maps for missions I create because I want to have full control over the layout. But I fully understand it's easier to start with the texture instead of having to fit texture to an already existing map.

Although a little rough in the southern region the map looks good.
I imagine the only Legion presence would (possibly) be Gordon passing through. The whole rescue-Gensher mission would take place on a different map. This ofc only emphasizes that this is almost two missions in one.
I think I've mentioned before that making bases impossible to take over is quite a daunting task, but that being said I'm not sure why the southern base should be invincible. For the sake of the teleporter I think it would be interesting if it was the teleporter in this base the player uses to send back cargo bays (since it's the exact same teleporter the Americans find in Am12). As for Russian spawning, road exits are fine.

And holy smokes, someone has been busy. I only dare to think how long it must have taken to gather those data.
Anyway, although it may historically make sense that some extra UPF people tag along to the last part of Ar15 it can be circumvented if necessary. A majority of them could have been killed during the fatal Gensher ambush.
Concerning the material calculations: Those are some pretty high numbers. They can be reduced by two factors:
1. Omar has already established a basic base in Ar15 so the player doesn't have to build one from scratch. Story-wise it doesn't have to be a base Omar has established recently. It could just be one of the remaining, minor Arab bases.
2. Omar could also have gathered some resources. Could be a fixed number depending on difficulty or propertional to the amount the player gathers.

Researching the custom artifact technologies are completely under our control. You decide through SAIL how long those techs take to research (have a look at Ar15a for instance).

I belive you have all the data you need but I did some research on how task speed changes with level. You can take a look if you want.
http://forum.stucuk.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1852
http://forum.stucuk.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1625
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