[EN] Missions 12-15 pro-Arab

[0dd1]

Why wouldn't Heike just pull back to New Kaaba when she learns Legion is around and leave things to Gensher and UPF?

For the same reason she choose to go there in the first place - there are no other Arabian forces in the area. When they learn of the bomb research already going on, they won't have much time to waste. Pulling back increases the chances of either Legion or Americans getting the bomb and UPF won't even get there in some time.
Being surrounded might be another factor. It might be that Heike past unseen because her squad was small and Legion became aware of her presence only after they lost the base. That would mean Heike's reinforcements had to fight their way through.

Why would Farmer attack the Americans and set up the base?

To avoid a situation like in Am13, where JMM is concerned about Legion hanging around and sneaks out in the night. They are supposed to be pinned down so they will have no other stalling/relocating/escapeing choice but to finish what they started and get it back to safety. The Legion base is there to make the south passage look hard to cross, more than actually stop a heavy assault. Why expend resources on something that is to be bombed? At first they would build a heavy defence line for the Americans to see, and after a while, when they would go on defensive the base would be mostly emptied (maybe having apes man most of the turrets, and that is also the reason Heike takes it over so easily) and so the attacks can't stop there because if the Americans catch a break, thay might destroy the dummy base and claim the high ground themselves.

I didn't assume here that it was a weak research outopst. I considered it to be the next main research base after epsilon. In Am13 Epsilon still exists and only this research is done by a small group to avoid detection. In Arabian campaign there is no Epsilon, so they build a new base to replace it. It is located to the north, so it wasn't supposed to be found (to avoid repeating Epsilon), but they had no way of knowing it's right under Legion's nose, and Arabians a little farther away. Frankly, I don't see why wouldn't the research be done in or around Alpha, but that's the idea followed in all campaigns.

From Am prespective: they are enduring Legions aggression and have no way of going south. They should expect to be attacked during the journey south and be informed of Legions movements to the south. The simplest and most effective way out of this is to bomb the fortifications and withdraw (or send the bomb plans and scientists with heavy guard) while people from Gamma (or whatever is closest) engage Legion forces from south.
Farmer would be thinking the same thing - the south ambush and the long range attacking vehicles breathing down on Americans necks, would crush the escapees in between them, seize the plans (and maybe capture some scientists) and run like hell.

[McBenn]

At first glance it sounds good. I'll have to think things through a little more carefully when I get the time but I don't think I will until next weekend or so (my schedule is killing me atm). But it would seem to me this is a good layout for Ar12. Ar13 is also fairly well defined. Then there's just Ar14 and Ar15 left.

[Heike Steyer]

As seen in Ru13 and Am13, the main characters of the opposing nations can be killed while defecting to the Alliance. Will there be a similar opportunity to kill perhaps McMillan and Gorky either making there way to the Alliance or while they are in a base?

[McBenn]

If Alliance attacks New Kaaba in Ar13 (that how the plan is now) it would have to be in Ar12. Although maybe unlikely because of all the Legion forces in the area and the proximity to the American research facility it could be possible for either JMM or Gorky (or both) to stray through the area.

[0dd1]

Unless JMM would be in charge of the American base. What about mission 14 or 15? The idea of using artifacts at the end was already mentioned, so maybe the Alliance could fill a part of last mission?

[jarmok]

JMM should lead Americans in last mission for some reason. And what about possibility of capturing Gorky and later exchanging him with Alliance for someone they captured?

[McBenn]

Or an artifact. I'm contemplating how the artifacts could be given a major role in Ar14 and Ar15. Something like combining the three would give yet unseen "powers", or inclusion of a fourth. Ar14 and Ar15 would then be about gathering and utilizing the artifacts to ultimately contaminate the motherlode.

[0dd1]

Personally, I would prefer to see something that would augment player's capabilities rather than doing most of the work. Things like temporal invisibility (as mentioned before), immunity to time lapsers (by setting the tech as invented), or even make it slow down the Russians for a time, resurrect people (like making them materialize again or something), limited ability to teleport things around (maybe even including buildings, environment and mines?), spreading radiation over a small area?

It has been proposed before to split the mission into two parts, so how about this:
- Preparation - involves making vehicles and researching techs that will be transfered. Undisturbed, but with an Alliance base nearby which could be attacked to get more artifacts.
- Attack - Arabian forces transfered from previous map in choosen configuration. Russians would have to have some extensive forifications or some alliance/legion remnants would fight the player just to make the mission a bit longer. Once entering the base (from the north I presume), the player would see Americans doing the same from west, just as it happens in Am15.
It would have to be said that contamination has to start from the centre, of the Russian base, for it to work though.

Another idea is to put a limit on technologies(mainly I mean upgrades) to be researched as well as on resources to have a more customized attacking force. Same could be done with such minor artifact effects as above, if sufficient amount of them could be made up.
Such variations could make it possible to play the mission several ways.

[McBenn]

Yup something like that. Customizing an attack force choosing from a wide array of parameters and then carrying out the attack. Still it won't be as long a mission as other last missions but that doesn't mean it can't be as good.

All this artifact stuff... wouldn't Ar14 have to be centered around gathering and (partially) researching the artifacts for all these "powers" to be available in Ar15? Heike carries around nr 4 (stolen from Russians) and nr 5 was found near New Kaaba (and possibly brought to New Samarkhand but could be brought with the escapees in Ar13). Wouldn't they need nr 3? Maybe even the unknown nr 2 or nr 1? Ofc that leaves the question what the legion captives taken in Ar12 are good for.

Making time loops - receiving units sent back in time from near future (so temporarily you would have double up) or sending enemy units forward in time making them disappear for a moment.

[McBenn]

Here comes another idea. Ar14 has been bothering me because at that time the Arabs know about the motherlode and has siberite decay researched so whatever the mission is about it has to be more important than going for the motherlode. The Farmer and Kozlov duo paired with some sort of internal fight about leadership (Heike, Gensher, Omar) is a decent suggestion, but it would seem most natural if the Arabs go straight for the motherlode after Ar13 (the one where you defend retreaters from New Samarkhand and learn about the motherlode). So there has to go a mission before Ar12 and it could go like this:

Based on Am11 (I know someone mentioned this before). Using the help of defecting Arabs the Americans have captured some bases in the western mountain region. It would be disastrous if they get a foothold here so Heike is sent to dispatch of them as quickly as possible. Moreover another artifact was found in this region and it must be retrieved. The Americans are not that well fortified but they have Arab allies so they have mines, kamikaze apes and the like. Furthermore they have taken hostages and threaten to kill them if Heike attacks. If the player doesn't care about this he/she can to some degree ignore it but there is a specific scientist with siberite expertise who must not die (the Americans do not know this, though). The Americans expect reinforcements so they are really just trying to buy time. The player only has units - no engineer to build a base.
There are now four ways to approach the mission:
1. Ignore the hostages and defeat the Americans so quickly they don't have time to kill them. Risky and the player will lose a medal.
2. Make a trojan horse. Request a previously captured American cargo bay from HQ. The player will have to wait for it to arrive. The Americans will attack with kamikaze apes and the like in the meantime. When the cargo bay arrives the guy/gal with the best American accent becomes driver and a bunch of soldiers hides in the back of the truck. When inside the American base hell breaks loose.
3. Wait for the American reinforcements and take some of them hostage. You can now threaten to kill those if the Americans kill their hostages, or you can trade hostages (removes the problem but reinforces the American defences).
4. The Freelancers (Gordon) pop in and offer to free the hostages (by pretending to join the Americans) so the player can attack freely. The price is the artifact. The player can kill them before handing them the artifact at the price of perhaps losing some of the freed hostages. Also if the player betrayed them in Ar10 they will join the Americans for real and help them lure the player into an ambush.

If you helped Gensher in Ar10 UPF could lend you some units here or something.
If the Americans receive too many reinforcements they kill off the hostages making the player lose. So the player also has to keep the reinforcements from reaching the American base.

[0dd1]

I think I came across it too. As I recal, it involved introducig the Alliance, by making the
player face a mixture of Russian and American technology and witness them moving off. It would be good to give the Alliance some part to play in this, because as the plans are now, they are simply diminished. They would play a very minor role in last missions and the one thing that makes them really distinct as a faction - using the artifacts - has been taken over by Arabians.
It would also create the opportunity, as mentioned before, to gun down JMM or Gorky, same as in original campaigns.

As for the mission plan itself:
Am11 happens after a successfull establishment of Epsilon. JMM is dispatched to make a swift strike, emphasize swift because it leaves them vulnerable to Russian attack. In Arabian campaign, it doesn't make as much sense since they have taken casualties in Epsilon already and now they are planning to hold these bases (unless I misread Your idea). Also it seems strange to accept mercenaries as allies right after the betrayal in previous mission. Taking hostages is also a little pointless during such a war unless they are valuable - therefore the Americans must realize the importance of the scientists they're holding or they wouldn't bother with this approach.
The first point can perhaps be argued that they are counting on eventually recovering any data stolen from epsilon, as it was said already that they were developing bomb there. Since their research facility is down and many of the scientists dead they need all the data they can get, if they are to beat the Russians to it. Alternatively, why wouldn't the Russians be the ones attacking these bases this time?
Joining hands with the mercs would have to end in Americans eventually turning on them or at least kicking the out imo.
Hostages just seems like a strange idea. What if those valuable scientists and other people decided to pretend to join the rebels when it became clear there's no way out for them? That way they would have to fight the player to avoid being discovered, so liberating them would be tricky.

[McBenn]

Ok I see your point with the Americans having taken a beating in Epsilon, so why would they want to establish permanent bases so far from their territory? It would make sense if the Russians would do it. They probably wouldn't mind cooperating with Arab traitors either.
Concerning the hostages, the reason to take them was merely to fend off attackers ("Attack us and we will kill them") to buy time until reinforcements arrived. Presumably they didn't send that big a force in the first place because they weren't sure if this was a hoax.

Anyway if Alliance is to play a bigger part one could say that it's them attacking these facilities just to steal the artifact. The player isn't involved in repelling them, we just hear about it. Alliance succeeds giving them 2 artifacts at hand (the other one JMM brings with him). Ar14 could then revolve around attacking Alliance and capture these artifacts for use in the final battle. What bothers me is, again, is this really more important than going straight for the motherlode? And can the Arabs muster the men and the morale for this after having taken a beating from both the Russians in New Samarkhand and Alliance in New Kaaba?

[0dd1]

Then why not simply move the discovery of motherlode location, by study of the artifact or some other means, to Ar14?

[McBenn]

Not impossible. The measurements taken in Ar13 may very well have to be analysed. Are the Arabs then just attacking Alliance out of desperation because, now that they are short on hands, they hope the artifacts will give them the upper hand?

[0dd1]

they hope the artifacts will give them the upper hand?

That doesn't seem right to me. As it has been said before somwhere, Arabians would be more likely try to destroy the artifact along with siberite or just ignore them. Of course, they wouldn't refuse such an adavantage, but being close to a deadline so to speak, I believe they would only extend time and resources for that only if they knew that there is something to be gained from the artifacts. Therefore: they would have to witness the artifact at work first.
Also, introducing new artifact tech would require some new approach to it, to justify it not appearing in original campaigns. A new artifact is even harder to include, because it would probably have to be discovered in some new area and so far that hasn't been considered.

They couldn't witness the Alliance using the artifacts because they haven't formed yet, so the only way would be to come across it themselves. Maybe something like this: after developing means to destroy siberite, they try the same or similar approach on the artifact itself, as it is related to siberite. They fail in destroying it but succeed in triggering some unexpected effect, which later in the game, after some more research developes a new technology.

Personally, I thought of the artifact use as a sidequest rather than main theme, introduced in last mission, as artifacts in Alliance ending. That would make the artifact research fill first part of ar15.


A different idea to fill the gap:
Linking ar14 directly to previous mission. If we say that the Russians were not going to stop at new samarkand, then that would call for some counterstrike. The plan was for Heike to hold the attackers while half of the people evacuates to bases at the map of am11, and there will the Russians go next, while the rest will pack up and "move" the base (kind of like mentioned in alliance mission 13) somwhere into the Russian territory where Heike would join them. If the whole operation were fast and discrete, they could strike some important target to divert the attackers that are at the moment of ar14 sieging the bases of am11. The news of Abdul's death would alter the plan to make Heike gather resources (because they would be left with no major base to prepare for the last ride after that assuming Russians leave the arabian bases about half destroyed) as well as attack. The mission could involve Russians as well as Legion.